SteveZ

iTrader: (3)

Did you chunk the tread as in separation of the blocks or scrub it? Did you get the worn rubber rolled to one side or the other of the center tread blocks?

If you separated the tread blocks the reason is obvious, what I am more interested in is to what side did you scrub off the tread if you got the rollup of rubber on the blocks - there is a long-standing caster/spring/rebound relationship you derive from what direction and degree of wear you see on the track with treaded tires...I did not separate the center tread but did see wear consistent with either too stiff springs matched to slow rebound, or caster settings when running my stock 350Z on the track...and despite babying the brakes in the extreme, they just weren't up to the task (stock, not Brembo)

Thanks.

For more pics of the wear I ran into see:
http://homepage.mac.com/stracy01/Auto/PhotoAlbum12.html

Boomer

I had much the same experience with my Turbo 91 MR2. Factory settings for camber were -2 degrees in the rear, being a rear midengine car. Tires in the rear lasted about 18,000 miles on summer tires. I had it adjusted to -0.5 and lost 75% of the razor sharp handling. It would be fine with me if I got 25,000 miles from my 400 UTOG rated A/Ss on my Z.. Why? Because I want to retain as much sharp handling I can w/o cupping.

I plan to go back to my alignment specialist and get his opinion on the TSB this week, if I can. If I have anything useful to report, I'll post it here.

Michael-Dallas

The point is that the 350 isn't the only sports car w/ tire wear problems. The NSX also had tire wear problems and after a class action lawsuit, Acura updated the alignment specs. The answer is a simple as playing w/ the alignment settings. No big conspiracy theory about flawed suspension design.

Do you understand the affect of negative camber and toe-out? Negative camber will increase the tire contact patch through corners, but at the expense of inside tire wear while driving straight. Toe-out will dial in oversteer (to a certain point), but at the expense of inside tire feathering. The 350 has a little negative camber in the front and specs for toe is 0 (it will actually toe-out just a hair under acceleration and at speed). This pair will certainly accelerate inner tire wear. Camber is not adjustable, but fortunately toe is. The goal is to get 0 toe during acceleration and at speed so if you adjust front toe w/ just a little toe-in, then that should greatly improve inner tire wear.

The suspension design is the same (you should be able to buy the NISMO S-Tune springs and shock absorbers and install them on a G35 sedan/coupe). This indicates that the suspension is NOT faulty in design, otherwise, we'd hear about tire feathering problems from G35 sedan/coupe owners.

Doubt all you want, but it's the truth. The max performance Pilot Sport are just a far superior tire (w/ SOFTER compound) over the ultra-high performance RE040. And the longer wheelbase will certainly improve balance and slalom. If you want my guess, the low skidpad number is probably because of the understeer dialed from the factory. I can almost guarantee you that w/ S-03's and the full S-Tune suspension, the 350 will produce a better skid pad number than .86/88.

Like I said, I could have gone to at least 15k miles on my factory RE040's. The tire feathering was not as much a wear problem for me as it was a noise problem.

Quite the opposite. The RE040 is a harder compound tire than the Pilot Sports (as stated above). The RE040 is an OEM line and Bridgestone "tunes" each RE040 size for it's application. For example, the factory RE040 on the NSX has a different tread pattern than the RE040 in the 350. Nissan chose the RE040 because they wanted the 350 to handle a certain way. The S-03 and Pilot Sport is a one-size fits-all tire (although I think they are far superior than the RE040).

For a sports car, it's normal. For a luxury car, it's not normal.

I chunked the center tread block and like I said, that was due to the 4 track weekends (and letting my instructors take the helm to show me a thing or two). The inner and outer tread blocks were fine (except for the inner feathering pattern).

I've got close to 4k on my S-03's and new alignment (I asked for a little toe-in). I've done 2 track weekends w/ them and tire wear is fine w/ no tire noise / rumble.

Michael.

WashUJon

That's consistent with a toe-out wear condition.

ricka

I dont know if this is acceptable......but without reading all 104 pages, can someone please tell me if my dealership has to replace my front tires due to excessive wear on the insides of the tires (feathering)? The dealer has rotated the tires in the front and said this is all they can do and it's normal for this type of car to have this type of wear. FYI they just replaced my front brakes again and shaved the rotors.....I have 13.5K miles

only1

iTrader: (1)

They do not have to replace them. The key is finding a dealer that will. I have been to 2 dealers and neither of them would replace them, the one I bought it from and the dealer where I live now.

bhobson333

But you can have some luck with 1-800-NISSAN1. If you plead your case well, the people there are (or have been) willing and able to contact your dealer and authorise (tell) them to replace your tires.

billg

You may have a problem getting them to replace the tires if you are reporting the problem after 12,500. I sure did.

grifferjr

nothing that new to add other than my own personal experience that will help because i was in the same boat as you, over 12k miles. thats the warranty cut off. be prepared to be a little stern, but polite, always best to be polite. call the 1800nissan number and talk to a rep who will assign you a case number. what they will do is set up an appointment at the dealer for you in which they talk directly with the dealer tech. the dealer tech then needs to inform that the tires cant be simply swapped and need replaced. nissan will intially turn it down cause of the over warranty. then they will try a computer GRT (goodwill requisition transfer). That will more than likely be turned down also. Not yet the last step by nissan. Then they can do a manual GRT, where you case is pled to an actual person. background here is that a grt is where the dealer accepts to do warranty work after warranty is up. you would think that out of all cases this would be one to be accepted. well here's the shocking news: NISSAN EVEN DENIED MY MANUAL GRT!!! Well this is where i got stern with the dealer and after some back and forth the dealer has to be the one to pay for the bill on the tires, NISSAN WILL NOT. My dealer rationalized this by admitting to me that NNA alluded to some kind of recall in jan-feb 04 in which time the dealer would be reimbursed for the tires. sorry for the length but thats the way to handle over 12k cars.

SteveZ

iTrader: (3)

Originally posted by Michael-Dallas
The point is that the 350 isn't the only sports car w/ tire wear problems.No kidding? "I didn't have to graduate from Lincoln High School to know that" (apologies to Eminem)

The NSX also had tire wear problems and after a class action lawsuit, Acura updated the alignment specs. The answer is a simple as playing w/ the alignment settings. No big conspiracy theory about flawed suspension design.

Well, that settles it - if changing the 4-wheel specs worked for a completely different Honda car it must be the answer for the 350Z. Nissan has had ample opportunity in 16 months to update specs and offer the same service if your solution is the "answer". You should not have to go to a Class Action lawsuit for this. BTW, the only conspiracy theory I subscribe to on this issue is mis-management on the part of NNA and inconsistent execution on alignments. Not exactly the X-files...


Do you understand the affect of negative camber and toe-out?
Yes, but you told me anyway

The suspension design is the same (you should be able to buy the NISMO S-Tune springs and shock absorbers and install them on a G35 sedan/coupe). This indicates that the suspension is NOT faulty in design, otherwise, we'd hear about tire feathering problems from G35 sedan/coupe owners.

Not sure what you consider as "design" - I would include spring rates, unsprung weight, all components including wheels and tires as the "original" design. That seems to have a few issues. BUT - no question the Pilot Sport is a great tire IMHO. If the Spring rate and shocks are the same as my '03 Z, well, they're not. My Z was noticeably stiffer in the springs and felt lacking in rebound dampening, from day one. The '04 G35 does not.

Doubt all you want, but it's the truth. The max performance Pilot Sport are just a far superior tire (w/ SOFTER compound) over the ultra-high performance RE040. And the longer wheelbase will certainly improve balance and slalom. If you want my guess, the low skidpad number is probably because of the understeer dialed from the factory. I can almost guarantee you that w/ S-03's and the full S-Tune suspension, the 350 will produce a better skid pad number than .86/88.


0.92 vs. 0.88...stock. So now what would the G35 do with S-tune...blah, blah, blah - compare stock to stock, after all, "Nissan had specific handling in mind..." That's like saying my Silvia drifter can beat your Dad's car on the skidpad. Sorry, that's a huge difference for the "same" suspension except for tires.

My position is you should not have to shell out the $$$ for S-tune just to get "normal" wear for a sports car. I don't personally have an issue with upgrading the car, that's great, but I do have an issue for all the people who just want to buy it and drive it moderately.

Like I said, I could have gone to at least 15k miles on my factory RE040's. The tire feathering was not as much a wear problem for me as it was a noise problem.

Noise is not a problem? Maybe not on the track with the windows down at 6000 rpms. NVH is a huge factor for many people buying yes, even a sports car. I could also have gone 15k with my RE-040's, BUT as my photos show, the uneven wear likely cost me another 5k miles on top of that.

... Nissan chose the RE040 because they wanted the 350 to handle a certain way.

No kidding - I thought maybe it was pure coincidence. You're not a freshman college prof by any chance?

The inner and outer tread blocks were fine (except for the inner feathering pattern).

Fine...except for excessive wear, noise, and premature expiration...guess we have a different definition of fine.

I've got close to 4k on my S-03's and new alignment (I asked for a little toe-in). I've done 2 track weekends w/ them and tire wear is fine w/ no tire noise / rumble.

Almost the same things I experienced with 040's at 4k...no issues. You also know just like I do that tracking the car changes the wear dynamics in a compressed manner w/re to time. Daily-driver-only people never see the temp or loads on their tires you and I have. You're comparing your experience to a universal solution - "just play with the alignment specs" - sounds like a new Nissan TSB.

So, just buy some more tires, S-Tune, get a proper alignment? If that's all you had to add, been there, heard that...and you could have saved your lecture for next period.

SteveZ

iTrader: (3)

Great info...sometimes when you've done everything else, been polite and considerate, you just have to demand what you're owed. A lot of people seem to think they are SOL when they hit 12k - great post.

bhobson333

Frankly, I appreciated Michael-Dallas's informative post. Your dripping attitude didn't add much to the conversation, though. It's certainly not productive. Why do you still hang around? To bash? Aren't there any G boards for you to haunt?

Michael-Dallas

You sure do like to argue just to have the last word, don't you?

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....light=tire+tsb

There's your new TSB. Read it carefully. What does it say about the preferred toe setting and alignment machines? Lemme guess... you still have doubts about it.

All I can say is that it works for me and droid. And if you haven't tried it yet, then you have no room for criticism. You asked your questions, I gave my answers (many I had to repeat since you obviously don't read my posts carefully).

Out of all your replies to droid, none contributed any useful information. Out of all your replies to me, none contributed any useful information. Your reply is as classy as droid's post. NICE.

Michael.

SteveZ

iTrader: (3)

Whatever.

You didn't add anything new at all; you'd know that if you read much more than your own posts. Check all my posts and photos on this thread - pics of the wear, accounts of all dealer and other...listened to my friends' try not to get into Lemon Law issues, posted TSB's and the results I found...

I have to have the last word? Read more carefully? Droid-boy swears a blue streak and tells us all to "**** off" if we don't agree with him??? You tell us to go get a real alignment and stop making such a big deal about things?

Go hang with your boy Droid, you can play "who's biggest/baddest" with each other.

SteveZ

iTrader: (3)

Frankly, it's *essentially* the same car, so much so M.Dallas claims it is exactly the same suspension, part of the post you refer to as valuable to you. It's good you found it informative. Unfortunately it did not answer the question I asked, so I found it less so. To each his own. Read your own post- productive or just a vent? I'll say at least you didn't tell me to fvuk off like the TX boys, I do appreciate that. I'll take "dripping" over profane and rude any day.

I'd think rather than dissing the G's you'd maybe want to take a look at what they are doing differently, maybe draw your own conclusions. When you've put a few thousand miles in both cars, then let's talk. I have - starting with 15 months in my 350Z.

BTW, head to the top-level menu and you'll find G35 Sport Coupe in this forum. So yes, I do have "G" boards to "haunt" - you're reading one, fool.

Go play with your alignment & tires, and speculate all you want - been there, done that. Personally, I'll just drive my car and not worry about feathering or ******** with giant egos...I'll just enjoy the ride.

SteveZ

iTrader: (3)

It tells me nothing I don't already know - the spec range, no toe-out, don't trust the rolling comp on the hunter, emphasizes that the range is very narrow, etc. The only "new" piece of NNA info I see is they emphasize 2mm as "preferred" vs. 1 mm-2mm, most likely to compensate for ensuring no toe-out.

Like I told the droid when he wasn't telling everyone to fvk off, nothing new here, not rocket science, and cars with this TSB applied still have the issue thousands of miles later.

Get this through your thick TX head(s) - alignment and/or new tires alone do not solve this problem. Even a quality alignment. You cannot say it worked for you when you and droid-boy went to S-Tune suspension and other mods...well, you can, and be incorrect, which does not seem to be an issue for you.

This BS/TSB does not fix the stock car setup, period. Note they still tell you to swap the tires side to side so you have some fresh rubber to slice and dice.

So go argue this to death, swear at each other and the world, let me know how it works for you replacing tires every 10-15k max, rationalizing the expense in the name of "sports cars". Duh - no wonder Bush wants "no child left behind"...

aggie300zx

Can't we all just get along here?

And SteveZ please stop referencing them as the "TX boys" as you may have noticed there are more then just two boys from Texas on this board....no offense ofcourse Brad and Michael

kbsig106

I called the BBB yesterday and re-opened my LL case. The "clicking" sound has returned and since Nissan conducted the "final" repair on 1/5/04 - that's it as far as I'm concerned.

The BBB is going to notify Nissan that I am not happy with the final work and that the problems have returned in less than 2 weeks.


all I have to say is..... $hit!

hwj

After watching and reading this thread for over a year now, I think we're starting to get somewhat over-reactive with one another. Frustrated; yes. Given that we all want the same thing out of this in the end, which is to have our Zs work the way they were intended, the sniping at one another makes us look like a bunch of children. I expect that from my college aged son. We have to keep on topic, stick together, focus on the technical issue here and keep the emotions in check. Keep in mind NNA is also reading these posts as well, they are not blind or stupid.



To Boomer, ChinaClipper, Droid:
Having said that and my tire problem "fixed" in October with the alignment and new RE040s, I wonder if there is a "Time" limit on whether or not NNA will replace the replacement tires when they finally feather again after 5,000 miles or so? I hope they won't but I'm not convinced the feathering has been cured. Since the winter has set in and there's snow and salt all over the place here now, I use the Z less than once per week, and it will be May/June before I put another 5,000 miles on it.

Also, I don't plan to alter my Z in any way from stock since it's got such a low VIN, so Nissan's delaying this gets me concerned about the "Time" element [read this as: I'm going to have to pay for the next round of alignment / tire replacement out of my pocket if the clock runs out].

PS: Replaced Trans. after six months + continues to be perfect.

DURO350Z

Hi Forum! I am a new member to this forum. I was wondering what noise are you guys hearing with the toe problem?