Hi, I have a 2004ZR with 7700 miles and I found out I have tire feathering.

Everyone has been complaining about their tires getting feathered due to the mis-alignment. But we need to look at it this way: WHAT is causing the mis-alignment to occur? Evidently, an alignment is NOT a solution.

 

I agree that alignment is not the total answer, but it appears to be fixing some.

There is a lot of talk on this issue and little detail. Like before and after alignment numbers, is alignment changing over time, how many continue to feather excessively after proper alignment, how many feather excessively and alignment is correct when first serviced. And for the pull to the right issue if this is fixed with the new strut what changed in the strut. Was the old strut defective and replaced with a correctly manufactured strut or is the new strut a modified design? I can't imagine that Nissan does not know all the answers.

Note that I use the term "excessive feathering." Some feathering is not abnormal and often masked by regular tire rotation.

 

Survey

Do you or have you had excessive feathering?
Was the alignment within spec?
Document old and new numbers
Was the alignment set to new preferred spec?
Document old and new numbers

Was alignment done on approved equipment?
Was the alignment machine properly maintained and tested?
Did the excessive feathering go away?

If the answer is no, repeat above.

Continue above until problem is resolved and document resolution.

With this info a pattern of the cause should be identified.

 

F-That! I don't spend $40K on a roadster to diagnose alignment and equipment problems in my spare time. Give the *****'s 3 chances to fix it, then call a lawyer. That is what the lemon law was written for.

Some amount of feathering is not acceptable. I have owned 3 93-98 TT Supras...NO FEATHERING on SOFT TIRES. If it feathers enough that you can hear is while driving, it is too much!

Do you work for Nissan?

 

Dude, if you actually try to technically address the tire feathering here, you're going to get flamed and/or the discussion willquickly become saturated by complaining. May want to check this thread out:

https://my350z.com/forum/maintenance-and-repair/92147-solve-tire-feathering.html

Its more of a "I want to know wtf is going on with my car and how do I fix it" type of thread. No bithcing about getting screwed by Nissan or the dealers. technical discussion only. Personally, its the approach I've taken and things seem to be working. But I've also spent alot of time researching and tinkering. I also understand dcwilsons attitiude. It's not unreasonable to expect a car to "just work" the way its supposed to. Everyone will ultimately decide individually how they want to deal with this.

 

After doing some research, I came upon the zcar.com forum. Please see the discussions regarding the tire issue at:

http://www.zcar.com/forums/read.php?...41529&t=141529
http://www.zcar.com/forums/read.php?...40636&t=140636

Reading vonsudderth's comments, he states the following:

"Cupping of the inside tread is not feathering. Feathering is related to toe out or in conditions and this is not the problem. The suspension has too much movement due to the double lower ball joint design. No amount of alignments and new tires is going to correct the problem."

I'm not an auto mechanic and I do not know this guy's mechanics expertise, but his statements seems to be consistent with some other people's stories as well as from that recent CBS news story on the 350Z--that the problem is due to the suspension...and is a problem that CANNOT be fixed due to the design.

While doing a Google search on "tire cupping", there have been a few vehicle models that have had this problem, such as the pre-1997 Ford F-150 pickups:

http://www.sporttruck.com/techarticles/1376/index5.html

In this case, did Ford offer a recall to fix it? From the looks of this article, I don't think they did. And I'm afraid Nissan ultimately will not fix its problem either...

 

I am looking for constuctive comments about what to say to Nissan. I have a message to call back Nissan Executive office today about my 03 redline. I talked to a company who does surveys for Nissan and expressed my/our frustration about Nissan's handleing of the feathering issue. Looks like he passed it on the Nissan corporate. This might be a chance to do someting for all feathering problem Z owners and not just me. My redline has severe feathering. On my 2nd set of tires and they are roaring at 12K.

I am looking to maybe do some good here...so please no emails sounding off or cursing at Nissan. We know the TSB doesn't work. So anybody out there who has experience with this issue is welcome to private message me. I will use the messages in my conversation and correspondance with Nissan. So 03, 04, and 05 owners let me know. Again, please spare me messages that don't address the issue in constructive tone.

 

I would also like to ask those of you who have an 04 model that were able to get your tires and alignment for free. What did you say to the dealer or to Nissan to get them to cover it under warranty?

I have 6500 miles on these tires and they are starting to make the noise. You can feel the feathering by running your hands around the tire.

Thanks

 

I just got my car back from the dealership. The toe settings were way out of adjustment. I had the alignment done at 3000 miles after I slid into a curb on the right side. Everything was set fine, but I heard a strange droning noise after I picked it up, so I brought it back three days later and the settings were way out on the right rear tire. They redid it for free(hinting that they thought I must have done something to it).

Well 5000 miles later and some wierd wear pattern--the feathering is on the outside tread block on the right tire and inside on the left tire. My toe settings when they checked it this time were -0.21 on the left and 0.17 on the right. Normal settings are supposed to be +0.0 - +0.10. They were set to 0.04 at 3000 miles.

Those with the feathering issues, are you finding the settings to be way off even after you had them adjusted?

Thanks

 

I first read about the problem on another forum, then got a call from my service writer who told me they would be happy to schedule an appointment for a fix. I guess dealer service levels vary, eh?

In any event, they aligned the car and for a while it seemed to fix my prob...but now the growling noise is back and the passenger front looks a bit "tired" so maybe I can get them to do it again.

I am getting ready to lower the car and will be installing a camber/toe kit at the same time. My Z contact at Stillen and a very well read Parts Manager recommended this approach.

Is it true that only '03 models are being re-aligned? I read that Nissan won't honor this technical bulletin for '04 and up. Seems to me that some '04 and '05 owners are also having the problem.

 

Yes the 04 and most likely the 05's have the same issue. The good news on my car is that they did the realignment for free at John Elway Nissan in Denver. I didn't even have to ask for it. The dealership where I bought the car didn't even know about the right control arm service bulletin which DOES apply to 04's as well as 03's so I wasn't even going to bother trying to get them to replace the tires or do the alignment.

I only have 8500 miles on my car so it is still within the 12,000 mile warranty on the wearable items like tires, so who know how friendly they will be once I hit 12K. I am hoping by then enough 04 owners will have complained that they will apply the TSB to the 04's as well. At this point it's good service is hit and miss with this issue if you have an 04.

I don't mind swapping the tires at 7,000 miles and getting a total of 14K out of a set, but with my alignment swinging out so much I can't predict the wear pattern to even the tires out by swapping them. If I have to buy new tires every 8K becuase of that I will not be happy!

 

2003 350Z -- Does anyone have the spec for what the alignment should be. Here is my experiance:

I started to get the "roar" noise at about 8000 miles, Nissan replaced the fronts at 12K and performed an alignment. At 14K I replaced the rears. Then at 21K I had to replace the rears again. At 23K Nissan replaced the fronts and aligned the car once again. The printouts from the two alignments have what I think are significant differences. So, what is the actual specification?


thanks in advance, lets hope Nissan can get this worked out!

 

You missed my point. There are endless comments on feathering little of which could be called data. Some fixed some not and nothing to indicate what's different. Some that have the problem uses the forums to vent and I understand that. I was trying to collect usable data in an effort to diagnose what was done to the cars that were fixed so that the same changes would be used on others.

Lemon laws are defined by the state. The protection of which may expire before we realize we have the problem. There are 88K 350z. Does anyone seriously think they all have the problem (tire noise.)

If these forums are to be used to document problems in legal or media environments, I suggest we author our concerns such that we do not look like illiterates. I think Ben Franklin said it best. "It is wiser to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and prove it."

 

Fact - Excessive toe out causes inside feathering.
Rumor - Adjusting tow to new prefered spec fixes some.

Rumor - updated Bridgestome tires fix the feathering.
Fact - Tires cannot fix an alignment problem. The new tires should reduce the feathering due to the additional support on the tread blocks. Tighter blocks will be more difficult to abrade.

Rumor - Changing camber will eliminate the feathering.
Fact - Changing camber will change the wear characteristics of the tires.
It will also change handling. Good for some. Not so good for others. I trust Nissan engineers alignment specs to be best for me until proven differently.

Rumer - Better tires fix the feathering.
Fact - Tires don't fix alignment problems. Tread design and hardness will affect the rate of tire wear.

Fact - Some alignment techs are better than others.

Fact - Some alignment machines are better than others.

Fact - Some good alignment machines are not perfectly calibrated.

Fact - Alignment adjustment specs are static and as such are little indication of what the tire wear properties will be under normal driving. Notable example: toe moves out from static while turning.

 

I've got a 2004 250ZR. I've managed to get 15000 miles out of my OEM tires. They've been howling like Red Nerckerson's Four Wheel Drive Chevy since around 7000 miles.

This is my second 350Z with this problem, my '03 was chewing it's way through tires at 16000 miles. Surprisingly though, it actually wore tires out slower than the '04.

Where would the best place be for me to complain to Nissan? I'd like to complain where it'll do the most good for everybody.

 

The most good will be for anyone with the noise/feathering problem to go to the dealer and give the dealer one shot to fix it. Then use the escalation process listed in the owners manual. The instant you are given unsatisfactory feedback, go right to the next step before leaving the dealer when possible. Have the service writer document his comments in the repair order. If communications are via phone, get incidence number. Take names and contact numbers. The more we pound Nissan the sooner Nissan will provide an acceptable solution.

 

recieved my 2nd set of free bridgestones and alignment last week from nissan, but not without a 2-3 week fight. They are very resistant, but if you keep on atleast they will temp. fix the problem and save you from paying for tires they are responsible for!

 

Yeah, but all the trips to the dealer have worn me out. When is that new Supra coming...next summer I am hearing.

 

I have gone to my dealer plenty of times and they still keep blaming the tire manufacturer. they tell me that its nissans policy on this and that I have to pay for new tires. I even called nna who called them, and they still dont want to pay for new tires, THEY WILL NOT BUDGE. anyone know of a dealer in palm beach county florida that will change the tires without a big fuss? The first time I took my car in it had 4K miles on it and they made me pay for a tire rotation. then I took it in again at 9k, which is when they told me I needed new tires pretty soon and I was going to eat the cost. this sucks.

 

Speaking of the alignment problems, nightmare, maybe you should open a complaint with the Service Area Director in your area and keep escalating it.

Of course, Mr. Doty has done something similar in Cali with his class action suit on behalf of all Z33 owners. ;-) I wonder...has anyone heard any result from this cause of action? It was filed on 10/1/04 and it called for Nissan to pay costs, expenses and, potentially, additional damages for fraud connected with their willfull concealment of poor design, poor workmanship and onerous business practices.

It sure seems like a long time to wait but we may all at least get some renumeration from the suit if the courts rule in favor of Mr. Doty.

Sooo...any news? Any buZZ on what has, or hasn't, happened in relation to the suit?