I will have the answer and alignment reports both before and after (with no changes other than 25mm & 30mm spacers added).

It would make sense to me that there would be some difference by moving the wheels out, you are changing all of the angles of the arms of the suspension. I just didn't know how much this change would net as far as the alignment numbers are concerned.

Maybe it is so small that it shouldn't push you out of spec, but that is what my question was about.

The alignment guy said that smaller spacers don't make that much of a difference, but the 25-38mm spacers that I run will show a difference on the rack. He said it probably wouldn't throw me out of spec, but that it wouldn't hurt to check it again. So I'm going to take it back in after installing the spacers and do that.

I'll come back and post the results once I have the second report.

 

The suspension isn't zero compliance. If everything was made of metal and nothing "gives" under any loading condition, it would be true. There are rubber bits involved though.

 

I agree with you there, but the change will be so negligible that it is not even worth talking about.

You'll see significantly more camber change driving your car on one road, and then on another road which is not exactly level with the first road. Or parking your car in a spot that is not exactly 360 degrees level..... We don't go get an alignment every time we want to drive on a new road because the new road has a 2 degree difference in slope than a previous road do we?

The answer is no, you do not need an alignment after installing spacers. If you do, you've got other things to worry about such as replacing worn bushings and suspension components.

 

Of course it wont hurt to check cuz he is going to charge you twice to do it more then likely...

 

I'm sure that you didn't mean it this way, but it sounds like you think that I'm stupid with my money and would pay someone to do something that has little value. He isn't charging for the alignment comparison after the spacers.

We are both curious just how much it will change the alignmentnumbers. Like I said, he didn't expect that it would throw it out of spec, but he expected it to have a small impact on the readings.

I'm also getting them to install some new toe bolts to pull my toe back into spec, and adjust the alignment again, so I'll be getting a final alignment measurement when that is done as well - so I don't think that they are going to care about the time it takes to print one more reading on the machine.

And there is a difference between the statements "No, spacers make no/zero difference in an alignment" and "Spacers don't make enough of a difference to worry about another alignment". This is how I phrased my question, because I knew that it wouldn't be a huge difference, I just wondered how much of a difference it could make.

 

I would also like to see the amount your alignment changes from simply driving the car around the block once and then checking the alignment again.... I bet you it won't be exactly the same, there will be some change.....

 

So should I have him hook it up on the machine and run the measurements, remove the wheels and install the spacers and wheels right there, and then have him take a reading immediately following mounting the spacers?

I can't pause the space-time continuum for it to be at the exact same moment. But no scientific test is ever perfect. The key is to come up with a hypothesis about what you think will happen based on some logical reasoning. In this case, I'm supposing that some amount of negative camber will be introduced by changing the length of the arm between the car and the wheel. I'm expecting this change because the spring and other suspension components aren't changing to take the change in length into account. If you've ever been on a see saw, the further that you are from the middle (fulcrum), the same amount of weight has a greater force that it exerts (leverage). If the experiment finds more positive camber, then my theory is dead in the water and disproven. If the experiment finds more negative camber, it doesn't prove my theory, but it definitely gives it some credibility (not just based on the measurements, but the logic behind the hypothesis).

It sounds like you may have a hypothesis that there will always be some level of randomness in readings from one alignment measurement to the next that would be noticably different. I'm not sure the logic that you would provide to support your hypothesis, but I encourage you to do your own experiment and either disprove your theory, or to add give yours some credibility as well.

I would expect these machines to be calibrated so that their readings are as accurate as is practical in real life. There would be no need for the manufacturer to spend R&D to design it to read to an accuracy of 1.51 if that didn't provide a practical difference from it reading 2 (rounded) due to the variance from one testing instance to another (margin of error).

 

Just the rubber bushings alone can potentially change results from racking and reracking a car. Then you introduce more leverage to the rubber bushing (in form of a spacer) and it is even more likely to change. I think Sparkle hit it on the head with his theory.

 

Is it true that if you have bolt on spacers such as ichiba v2 and for whatever reason the fail...insurance won't cover any damages to your vehicle ?

 

WHO KNOWS..... Its probably bad luck if you do get denied coverage if in fact you unfortunately get into an accident...........one deemed fault due to "any" aftermarket part............

I will say this...........do your due diligence....call local agents, ask to speak to insurance appraisers,etc, read your policy, yes the fine print and read what it really covers.....lol, youll be surprised.........

I have friends in the business and i will say that the relaxed insurance inspector/appraiser days are over...

I personally know a friend that got into an accident at night....due to having tint that was 5 percent below the legal limit they denied his coverage and he was and has been paying out the wazzooo....

So.....IF, and a big "IF".........you were to get into an accident where, lets say a wheel feel off for you not torquing spacer lug nuts, etc and an insurance inspector saw that, who knows or whos to say what exactly what would happen....

there is another thread where we discussed these exact issues in the past, and some my350z members that are in the insurance business did post some great info....


-J

 

that being said, ive mentioned this many many times......i have drifted and removed wheels with and without spacers many many many times and i have never had an issue.....mainly becuase not only do i torque them every single time, but I ensure i install them correctly every time....

spacers failing are 99% of the time I would bet cash money is due to sloppy installation error.............if you take a moment and simply install them correctly you will be golden.......racing, drifting, daily driving, etc......

i explain in detail how to install them in the first threads...


-J

 

Any empirical data been obtained to answer this question?

 

Sorry, been traveling for work. Should get a chance to tackle it in the next week or two when I go back to add the new toe bolts.

 

i have 25mm ichibas V2 on my stock touring 18" v1 rims...after installing the ichibas, the car rattles over 100 MPH...just like the rattling of an unbalanced tire..can anyone point me out why is that?

 

i did search but did not find what i was looking for

so if one buys, Eibach, Ichiba Version 2, H&R , in 15 mm you can buy either of these in hub centric for our cars, and they bring the studs fastened to the spacer from the manufacturer, and the nuts to fasten the spacer to the factory studs

now i want the features of what is above , hub centric to our 350z, with studs mounted in the spacer from the manufacturer, with the nuts to fasten the spacer to our factory studs, BUT i want them in 10 mmm

i found FIC Wheel Spacers in 10 mm with all the things i need , has anyone tried them and if so are you satisfied with them, and or do you have issue's with them

thanks in advance

i realize they are a bit more money at $180-$200 per pair

 

Does anyone know if these lug nuts will sit flush to the spacer surface on a 15mm spacer? Also where else can I get these nuts? I tried calling/emailing Ichiba but no response and their phone number seems to be disconnected. M-Motorsports has not been logged in to the forums for months too so no luck there.

I want to put on my spacers already!

 

if ur talking about the nuts that come with the spacers then yes they sit flush with the 15mm spacer i have that exact set on my car. i accidentally rounded a couple of em and was able to order some more through henry@statikperformance (screenname mrwong@statik) hes a vendor on here

 

^^ on post 16 where you got that pic from it says below the pic where to get them?????

"""They are 11.5mm tall!!!! use a 17mm hex socket also.
Contact vendor M-motorsports - vendor here on our site:
https://my350z.com/forum/members/1398...torsports.html
Also $2.00 each with flat $9 shipping from overseas."""

-J

 

Will be installing 25/30mm spacers + Tanabe NF210 Springs(1.2/1.2) this week.

I already did the rear rubber spring seat cut mod.

Wheels are the Rays track V1 wheels and running 275 rear tires. lol.

I'm gonna rub bad.. I can feel it



Will post pics when installed.

 

Yep, it rubs crazy bad

Will post pics later.